Phil Clarke - Sky Sports Expert

Could it be magic?

Pitch could be Murrayfield's downfall

Posted: 15th July 2008 13:29

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murrayfield

Murrayfield: Set to host a weekend of Super League fixtures

The news that the Magic Weekend will move from the Millennium Stadium to Murrayfield next May has polarised opinion.

Some see it as a step backwards, moving away from a city centre stadium location to one that is more out of town.

Moving away from an area with a potential Super League team to one in which the early shoots of development are just taking seed.

And, for most fans, travelling north (further away from the Equator and therefore potentially colder!) instead of south, with bitterly cold memories of a Challenge Cup Final that was almost washed out in 2000.

Others however, see a greater choice of affordable accommodation, space to provide entertainment before, during and after the matches, and a willingness from the local tourism board and stadium to help make the event as successful as possible.

My mind is split. It's too early to say whether we should have stayed in one location for five years to build up some local awareness and following.

Ticket sales

In theory, there are more potential supporters of rugby league in south Wales than in Scotland, but that didn't translate into ticket sales in the first two years of this roadshow concept.

The supporters so far have been those willing to travel from the Super League towns.

But the biggest worry is the pitch.

Anybody who went to the Challenge Cup Final in 2000 (which took place at exactly the same time of year) and had a chance to walk onto the turf after the torrential rainfall would wonder whether it's possible to play seven games of rugby in two days.

The very last game of day two might turn out to be a mud wrestling competition!

Despite my misgivings, I'll give it a go, and I hope to see you there as well.

Play-off format

Whilst talking about next year, I would like to canvass your opinion.

With the expansion of the Super League to 14 teams, discussions are under way regarding the play-off format for 2009 and beyond.

Some people have suggested a top 8 play-off, which is what currently takes place in Australia where they have a 16-team competition.

I understand and appreciate the commercial and financial reasons for having a top 8 play-off.

There would be more games, potentially more paying spectators and the interest factor would hold probably ten teams' attention until the end of the regular fixtures.

However I'm not in favour of rewarding eight teams in a 14-team competition. The eighth-placed team will win less than 50 per cent of its games and I think that you're rewarding mediocrity.

If you sit an examination I believe that a minimum pass rate should be 50 per cent and I'd prefer to see teams that win at least half of their games rewarded with the honour of appearing in the play-offs.

I would be very interested to read your views.

Phil answers your questions...

Hi Phil. I have recently started getting into rugby league and really enjoy the competitive nature of the game, especially watching Leeds Rhinos. However I just wondered, do you think the Super League would be more exciting and competitive if teams played for three points for a win and also had more teams competing in the league? Surely this would improve the quality pool of players availible for the national teams?
Simon Corion

PHIL SAYS: I can't really see what difference it would make to the excitement, intensity or quality of the Super League competition if you increased a win from two points to three. In fact it would probably just widen the gap between top and bottom and have the reverse effect.

Last year there was a total of six drawn games from the 162 matches played (i.e. just over three per cent of matches ended up as a draw). This year we've had three drawn games from 125 matches (c. 2.5%).

The point that you make about having more teams is a topical one. Some people believe that the standard will drop next year when we move to 14 teams. They argue that there aren't enough players to field 14 equally competitive teams. If that's true, then we may see some one-sided matches with victories by 60 or 70 points.

One of the reasons why we may not find the player pool necessary is related to the professionalism of rugby union over a decade ago. Prior to that most sides had at least one or two former rugby union players in them. If you take Wigan as an example in the mid 90s, they had players like Frano Botica, Vaianga Tuigamala and Scott Quinnell. Most other teams fielded players who had spent time playing rugby union e.g. John Bentley, Jonathan Davies, Scott Gibbs, Mark Jones, David Bishop, Martin Offiah, David Young, etc. Many of these came from Wales, but a large number were from England and had never reached International status before switching to rugby league.

Most people assume that the days of recruiting rugby union players are over, but I don't necessarily agree. We tend to have a narrow view when identifying players and repeatedly go to the local junior clubs within walking distance of our professional clubs trying to find the next first team players.

St Helens took a wider and more long-term view when they signed the most dynamic forward in Super League at present. Maurie Fa'asavalu is one of the best players in Super League. It is impossible to think that he is the only rugby union player who could make the transition. It takes greater effort on the club's behalf, but it is possible.

One could also look at Simon Worrall at Leeds. He attended a school in Bradford on a rugby union scholarship and then went to play rugby union at Leeds before shifting across to the Rhinos.

There are two examples of players who have the ability to play at the highest level. Digging into those type of pools might also help the national team.

Phil, I was recently watching an old Regal Trophy final and it struck me that the game could really use a third domestic trophy (okay, fourth if you count the League Leader's Shield), but there is obviously no room for it in the fixture list. Now, I understand that next season there will be one free weekend for an international during the season - presumably England-France. Assuming that this is true, what would you think of the following idea: the same weekend, although not the same day, Super League has a sevens competition. All 14 Super League teams, plus two more by invitation (from National Leagues, Scotland, France, Russia, rugby union - wherever) playing in a straight knockout format, giving a total of 10 games of sevens, which I would think could be played in one afternoon. Sky cameras could come in after the opening round, showing the quarter-finals onwards. This would, I think, be a great day out for Super League's fans generally, would give those players not selected for England something to look forward to at that weekend and would give the domestic season an extra trophy which, realistically, those clubs that are unlikely to win Super League or the Challenge Cup might have a little more chance of winning.
Martin Marshall

PHIL SAYS: Well Martin, I should be writing to you for answers, not the other way around! How do you know next year's fixture list so early?

I have read that the northern and southern hemispheres are attempting to co-ordinate their mid-season international fixtures so that clubs do not need to release their international players for Test matches and miss important club games. I think that would be sensible.

In addition, the timing of the mid-season international match could be co-ordinated to help. Steve McNamara, the Bradford coach, made what I thought was a very good suggestion - accepting that we are going to have two games over the Easter weekend for each club, he recommended having the Test match on the following weekend. It might be possible to allow Catalans to only play one game, say on the Friday, with at least seven days then to prepare for the Test.

When the Test Match is played, all the players in Super League with the exception of those playing in the Test would get a weekend off.

It would fill what was Round 9 this year, i.e. one third of the way through the season, and be played well before the State of Origin series in Australia.

History tends to show that it's the week after Easter when the players tend to struggle and the quality tends to drop.

I do like to watch sevens tournaments but can't see it being that successful. I don't think that you would get more than 25,000 supporters at such an event and I can't see it making money.

I appreciate your point about another club winning a trophy but feel that it's the wrong time in the season.

In my opinion, it would need to take place at the start of the year, say January, but the weather isn't conducive then. If you could find an indoor venue, say in Manchester or Leeds then perhaps that could work?

Got a question for Phil? Then mail it in HERE, send it to skysportsclub@bskyb.com (put Phil Clarke in the subject field)... or if you have a view on any of Phil's thoughts this week, use the feedback form below...

Comments

Carl Wright says...

Phil, Can you please clarify the ruling on announcing new signings. Some clubs are already announcing signings for next season, yet I thought there was a date of 1 Sept, where no dealings could be announced before.

Posted 12:09 23rd July 2008

Geoff Davies says...

I went to the St.Helens v Wigan final at Murrayfield and although I love Edinburgh as a city I found the price of accommodation,food and beer expensive. I felt that the Scots were rubbing their hands with glee at the heaven sent opportunity to fleece the "rather slow" Northerners of their money. Although the result was a disappointment my main grievance was the way I felt "ripped off" by city and its inhabitants. Perhaps the Gods of Rugby League should realise that fans not only view this as an opportunity to watch a match outside our usual confines but as a holiday that the whole family can attend and enjoy. I would like to see either a tournament taking part in the South of France (many of us have already been to watch Catalans v our team) or Dublin. This would add to the ambience of the fixtures and allow the family to enjoy the other attractions of the city. I've been to Cardiff and, I've been there and done it! Somewhere new please but not Murrayfield.

Posted 14:01 20th July 2008

Martin Flinn says...

can you tell me when the tickets will be on sale for the magic w/end next may , and have you any idea how much they will be

Posted 18:28 19th July 2008

Bob Hatters says...

Born in St. Helens, I've moved around the country, and have always missed being able to go to the game to watch Saints (thank God for sky!!!). I've recently moved to Scotland, and so had mixed feelings when it was first mentioned the possibility that Edinburgh would host the 'Magic' weekend. From a purely selfish point of view, of course it's a dream come true to have 8 games of superleague played in Scotland - not only will I be able to see the games, but I hope it will help encourage any interest in our sport that the involvement of Scotland in the World cup will generate. However, thinking more broadly about the good of the game, I think this is a mistake to come to Scotland. In order to fix this game in the supporters' calendar, it needs a fixed date and a fixed venue, with which supporters become accustomed. Just as the Grand Final gained in interest year on year to become the season's pinnacle it is now, the event in Cardiff would have continued to build support, as people began to see it as a regular event, and identify with it. I attended the Cardiff weekend both times, and thought it was an excellent concept, hosted in an excellent stadium, and thoroughly enjoyed it. There were those who raised objections, but I think these would have dissipated as the event took hold. Removing a central aspect of the concept, the 'Millenium' part of 'Millenium Magic' will undermine the idea, and supporters' will see it as a money-making exercise. I also think we risk jeapordizing the burgeoning Welsh support that this event built upon, and along with the hosting of the Challenge Cup in Cardiff, has immeasurably helped the Celtic Crusaders' meteoric rise. I look forward to welcoming people to Scotland - it's a wonderful place with wonderful people - I love the place. I just hope we haven't undermined this event and Welsh rugby league generally, because that wouldn't be a price worth paying.

Posted 01:10 19th July 2008

Ian Samuels says...

Cant really see edinburgh's hotels being cheaper as soon as any event is on in any city the prices shoot up! and as for the chance to buy tickets now for a game in 10 months time 455 miles from me and i wont know who we are playing till nearer the time? i dont think so, the leeds bradford game was one the main reasons for going! and the chamce to catch the hull derby and saints wigan all in one weekend! ,with all due respect to other sides i for one wont be buying a ticket 10 months in advance with the chance we could be playing quinns, and have to travel 455 miles for the pleasure! madness! cardiff should have been given the opportunity to develop this event,

Posted 18:35 18th July 2008

Lesley Roach says...

I booked accommodation yesterday for three nights at the Edinburgh Central Travelodge for next May and the family rooms had all gone - the rep I booked the rooms through couldn't believe they had sold out and that they'd also sold out in the nearby Haymarket Travelodge. He asked me what big event is on that weekend for the rooms to go so quickly. As for the venue, we are delighted that the Magic weekend has been moved to Edinburgh, apart from the fact that if our team Workington Town have a home game on the Sunday, we will miss it but that is the price we will have to pay, I'm afraid. There is one thing the RFL needs to do to ensure a sell-out - cancel all NL1 and NL2 fixtures and get BARLA to do the same with the amateurs so all rugby league supporters can go to Edinburgh. Surely the powers that be have realised by now that the huge crowds at the Grand Final and Challenge Cup final are achieved mainly because of the traditional support from outside Super League.

Posted 16:02 17th July 2008

Brendan Callaghan says...

Having been to both CC finals in Edinburgh both my wife and I found the City to be full of the most welcoming people outside the heartland of the game. Accomadation is plentiful and varied and the ground is no great distance from the city centre when you are part of an enthusiastic RL crowd of fans. We have used both hotels and camping (Leith) and not once been dissapointed with our time there. Tho' the beer festival ran out of beer one year.

Posted 12:56 17th July 2008

Brenda Jones says...

It has been pointed out that accommodation was expensive in Cardiff and that it is cheaper to stay in Edinburgh. I have booked my hotel in Edinburgh with the same hotel chain as in Cardiff and have had to pay £90 more for 3 nights than I did this year! No roof on stadium if it rains so fans will be sat out for 2 full afternoons and evenings getting soaked.

Posted 20:48 16th July 2008

Jon Wadey says...

Phil, after living in and around Edinburgh for 5 years during 1999 - 2004. I was one of the of the many neutral fans (I'm a Cas fan for my sins) that attended the CC final that was held at Murryfield. The praise that came from the RL community as a whole, and from the locals was well received by both sides. I understand your concern in regards to the weather but at the same time haven't the players been complaining in regards to the condensation on the pitch at Cardiff with the roof shut. I know that fans have complained about lack of hotel rooms in and around Cardiff. At least with Edinburgh, not only have you got the hotels within the city, but you've also got more hotels in the surrounding area within close proximity and directly via motorways. Fans could even stay over in Glasgow and see Scotlands other great city, while traveling in by train, or car across the M8. For me there seems to be far more options open to the fans wanting to travel up for the weekend than there is in Cardiff. Yes Murryfield isn't in the City Centre but providing the SRFU and RFL pull out all the stops, there is nothing to stop this becoming a tremendous venue.

Posted 16:47 16th July 2008

Anthony Mckenna says...

Hello again Phil, thanks for your reply on Liverpool getting a future Super League franchise. I was thinking more about the play off system, but as opposed to expanding the play offs, I was going the other way, and DECREASING the number of teams to 4. Instead of the current playoff system, i have theory of a round-robin group, with the top 2 qualifying for the Grand Final. As an advantage, the team finishing top would get all 3 group games at home, 2 for 2nd place, 1 for 3rd, with 4th having 3 road games. Based on the current table, it would look like this Week 1 Saints v Warrington Leeds v Catalan Week 2 Saints v Leeds Catalan v Warrington Week 3 Saints v Catalan Leeds v Warrington I know people will say that it excludes teams who could finish 6th and win the Grand Final, but isn't that the point? With the "end" of relegation, and Catalan showing that 3 years is long enough to establish yourself in Super League, this could give the other teams incentive to build towards a top 4 finish. Plus the revenue that the clubs as well the RFL recieve, I know I would rather have 3 more matches guaranteed, than the worry of knowing its "win or go home" As always, i'd be interested to hear what you, as well as Eddie, Stevo, Barrie and Tel think bout this type of format?

Posted 12:02 16th July 2008

Andrew Miggiano says...

hi Phil, another reason why magic weekend has been moved from cardiff (a conspiracy theory) Celtic Crusaders have already been given a place in superleague next season so the rugby league want to expand the game somewhere else ie scotland. I hope i am wrong because Cardiff is a great city with everything including the stadium located in the centre perfect for all the fans. It just needed to be organized better

Posted 11:51 16th July 2008

Brendan Cummins says...

i fully back taking the roadshow out and about accross the country but ive been to murryfield to watch challenge cup finals and its not a venue for a weekend of super league action there is no atmosphere at this stadium it is tucked away from any amenities for the fans i cant see many supporters attending next years event

Posted 10:14 16th July 2008

Andrew Miggiano says...

hi phil, very sad to hear the magic weekend has left wales. Yes i understand there were problems after last year but Wales should have been given the chance to put it right. If the rugby league and the big chiefs in cardiff had got together to discuss the problems maybe things would have got better. and another thing, rugby league in wales is on the up there is no doubt. To take it away naw is just silly. If the rugby league want to expand the game to take this event away from this area naw is not the way to do it

Posted 09:18 16th July 2008

Stewart Gairns says...

I'm more than a little bit disappointed with your clouded views on the "Magic" week-end coming to Edinburgh. Your writings are based on information that will be 9 years old by the time the event comes along. What happened in 2000 was a freak of nature and could have occurred anywhere. What you fail to mention is that the final went ahead to a sell-out crowd who all enjoyed the day, despite the lack of facilities on the back-pitches at Murrayfield. This time WILL be far better. The SRU don't do things by half when they entertain people. I will travel along with my family from north-east Scotland and take in every match. We haven't been to a match since Gateshead Thunder played at Tynecastle against Wigan (1999, I think). Looking forward to it.

Posted 08:51 16th July 2008

Kev Brown says...

Phil, I enjoy reading you column and was a huge fan of yours when you played at Wigan. However - I was astonished to read the following line "In my opinion, it would need to take place at the start of the year, say January, but the weather isn't conducive then. " Forgive me, but how many games in your pro career did you play in January? Or February, March or April??? Have attendances really risen by so much that a winter tournament couldn't be feasible? Maybe fans have become too soft and forgotten the roots of the sport, but part of the magic of rugby league was standing in the Dougy stand freezing your arse off shouting at Gilly to please straighten up or for Joe to "have a pop!". I really don't think that a winter tournament is out of the queston - in fact, it may be a welcome respite from football and no rugby for those waiting patiently for the new season!

Posted 06:21 16th July 2008

Philip Mcloughlin says...

i think the change of venue is great news i had a great time when i went to the challange cup final there when we played st helens we stayed the weekend and the locals and the way it was run on the day was fantastic. im sure sts fans and others will agree with me cant wait for next year phil wigan

Posted 21:12 15th July 2008

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